Integration of Annuities and Social Security Planning with Jan Buchsbaum and Mark Fitzgerald

Jack Sharry: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us on this week’s edition of WealthTech on Deck. As our listener knows, I love me some innovation, disruption, and thinking outside of the box. As I observe what the annuity industry is up to, I see innovation popping up all over. Like my friends and colleagues on the asset management side of things, I see the annuity business grappling with similar issues. Specifically, it seems everyone is trying to figure out how to generate organic growth. As I analyze the critical elements of how to make organic growth happen, asset management or annuities or anything, I see three critical paths. One is innovative product and/or solution design. Two, streamline service and technology to make it easier to do business. And three, distribution partnerships and access. Today, we’re going to talk with two people who are part of the leadership team at Nassau Financial Group. Nassau has been clicking on all cylinders, innovative product and solution design, streamlined user experience and a smart approach to partnerships and distribution. Joining me today are Jan Buchsbaum, Chief Product Officer, and Mark Fitzgerald, the national sales manager. Jan and Mark, welcome to WealthTech on Deck. It’s great to have you on board.

Mark Fitzgerald: Jack, thank you for having us. Great to be here.

Jan Buchsbaum: Absolutely, excited.

Jack Sharry: So Jan, let’s kick things off. Tell us about Nassau Financial Group. Who are you? What do you do? And who do you serve?

Jan Buchsbaum: Yeah. So we’ve been around for almost a decade now, so relatively new, but we’ve been able to combine kind of the strength and of kind of like being here, being here for our policy holders, and also kind of an innovative culture that’s set really around extreme ownership. And as one of our founders said earlier today, you know, if something’s not broken, break it and make it better. And so core to our DNA, we are a asset manager and insurance company. Our focus are really middle market clients making sure that they have the protection that retail annuities provide, whether it be for guaranteed income or market upside with downside protection. But those are the types of kind of core products and solution that we, that we develop and deliver, and we’ve really had some fantastic growth and success over the last 7, 8, 9, 10 years. So really excited about where, where we are today, and we’re really just getting started. We have a lot of growth ahead of us, a lot to accomplish. And core to everything that we do is, how do we help the consumers with their needs?

Jack Sharry: So Mark, we’ve known each other, I think forever. We’re pretty close.

Mark Fitzgerald: It’s been a long time.

Jack Sharry: We worked together for many years. I might say we might count a decade or two, but in any event, I know Mark well and his… I know one of the top sales managers I know of in our industry. You’ve had some amazing results over the past few years. Why don’t you fill us in on some of that sales strength and growth and momentum.

Mark Fitzgerald: Yeah, and I’ll try to tie it in, Jack, to the critical elements that you had mentioned about growth. I guess, starting with product. You know, if you think about when we first got into this space and the independent channel, we really kind of came in somewhat as a niche player, really focusing in on income, and then even more so, income in the early stages. And that was an opportunity that I think kind of had a void at the time, and coming out of the financial crisis 08/09, like it was a product set that really put a name for ourselves on the marketplace. Over the last decade, you know, Jan and I have worked very closely together, and he’s brought a lot of great ideas in terms of diversifying the portfolio. So, you know, now, if you look at it, we’ve, we’ve built a portfolio that’s designed to be very comprehensive and consistent in the marketplace, so not going in and out, which I think is a key, you know, for a lot of the distribution partners to get behind us, and that’s worked successfully. And then also focusing on different needs, from a consumer standpoint, going into retirement. So again, started off as income. Now we’ve got a portfolio that’s really designed around growth and accumulation, income, critical care coverage, and family protection or legacy protection, and we have products that really weight themselves in each one of those categories. So that’s made it very good to reach a broad marketplace, and we’re getting very good diversification now in the product portfolio. From a service standpoint, we get great accolades from not only our marketing NMO partners, but also from the producers. And one of the things that… who heads up service incorporated several years back, was bringing in the back office from a lot of these distribution entities to say, hey, what’s important to you, like when you’re processing business coming through, what are some of the things that we can do to improve on and since that, and we bring them in quarterly, we’ve made over 80 changes to help processes and some minor tweaks, you know, some larger changes that say, hey, this is a great way to continue to make your lives easier. And we’ve done a great job, I think, in terms of being able to do that. At the agent level, we’ve also focused in on an elite program, and that elite program has been very successful. We have dedicated service reps, key account folks for the elites, so their hold times are virtually nothing. They come in, they work with the same people, and that’s been great. Some of the technology is really integrating a lot of things to help the process move along quicker. So the faster we can get something issued, the faster… can get paid. We’ve got something built into the fire right now, which is an innocent approval, if you will, on suitability. And over 70% of the cases coming through are going through that, and the others that aren’t are getting approved very quickly, within 24 to 48 hours, and the approval rate is extremely high based on the training that we’re doing in the field. So I think those would be the first two. From a distribution partnership standpoint, you know, look at it from multiple fronts. First, we have our national marketing organizations as partners, and we’ve, you know, historically, you know, continue to focus in on the key partners that we’ve developed, view them truly as a partnership opportunity versus just a product outlet. And so I think the fact that it goes both ways and we work with them to find out how we can incorporate into some of their marketing strategies has played well. The elite producer retention has been great. Year over year, we’re getting a much higher volume of business coming from those producers too. So kind of what started off as a narrow and deep strategy has really broadened out.

Jack Sharry: Terrific, great. So Jan, let’s talk about that. We talked about the three critical elements being product solutions, service and tech. And of course, we just heard a lot about the distribution side. So talk a little bit about what you’ve been building broadly. We’ll get into some details in a little bit, but talk a little bit about what you’ve been building.

Jan Buchsbaum: Yeah. I think, yeah. Before getting into this, some of the LifeYield and Social Security stuff, which is kind of the fun, super innovative items, yeah, let me give you a lay of the land. So one of the things that’s core for us, from a product development standpoint, is the market, which is the consumer, who are you serving, and distribution, who are the people serving those consumers? And the industry that we’re in, we’re working through advisors, through producers, through agents. So everything that we’ve done, that we’ve built over the last six, seven years has been directly, hyper focused, involved with distribution and our consumers, and we’re focused on solutions and providing those solutions to their consumers. So just to give you an idea, we built, you know, a half a dozen products over the last six years that now account for probably 60% of our sales and growing rapidly. Just the two products that we launched last year, I think are already accounting for on track, maybe 25% of our sales, probably in 2025 and maybe more, and one of them is this super innovative thing that we’ll talk about in a moment. And the key to that growth and success, like I said, is making sure that we’re hyper focused on consumer and making sure that our distribution is involved and understands so that there’s a complete connection. We don’t want to be, you know, people coming up with, like, cool, unique features in the background that, when you go to implement it, are super complicated, too hard to explain, and then it just kind of falls flat. We want to make sure that it works throughout the value chain, and that has been, like, a core kind of capability and focus and reason for, you know, our success, and I think future success.

Mark Fitzgerald: You know, just one thing to quickly add on to what Jan mentioned, even right down to the product naming. As we come out with products, we don’t want to just come out with me too products that sit on top of each other. And one of the things we get from a product naming standpoint is say, hey, why don’t we just name it what it does?

Jack Sharry: Novel, what a novel thought.

Mark Fitzgerald: Rather than calling it some exotic name, like a personal income annuity. What does it do? It provides income. Then ask about growth annuity, the bonus annuity. So at the agent and consumer level, like they understand, like, what the product is doing, what the solution you need is.

Jack Sharry: So how’d you come up with that brainstorm, Jan? Tell me,

Jan Buchsbaum: I’m not that creative, I guess.

Jack Sharry: Well, I, you know, I have to say, as you guys know, I’ve been around the block a few times, and one of the things I’m forever grappling with, how do you just keep it simple? And it’s just so hard, everyone wants to complicate it. Of course, it a lot of what we do isn’t, isn’t all that simple, but which is, it makes it even more incumbent on us to simplify and to make it easy to access. So talk a little bit about that, Jan. I’m sure there’s a process that goes into it, especially if you’re pumping out six products in six years. That doesn’t happen much in the annuity space.

Jan Buchsbaum: No, it does not. First of all, we have a great team here in general that really like, just across the board, like Mark was talking about before, some of the things that we do in terms of like our service, like we have direct relationships with service individuals and teams at the different IMOs and agents and producers that we work with. So we’re taking that direct feedback from the people are actually doing this in the front line, and we’re building it and considering it upfront as we’re developing things. I am constantly out talking to Mark and team and our distribution partners on like, what are the pain points? We’re asking them, say, hey, we want to develop this. What are some of the problems you would have when trying to explain it? Or, hey, what do you think is a good idea? And I think one of the best pieces of feedback that we’ve gotten over the years is from both producers and IMOs and consumers, is that we listen and then we do what we say we’re going to do. So I keep a running list. I can’t even tell you, it’s kind of silly at this point, of all the different things that I hear from producers and clients and our partners on what they would like to see us build. We are actually constantly meeting internally and prioritizing, where should we lift, what we should do? And I can honestly say, every single thing that we built over the last six years has come from direct input, from the field. Everything.

Jack Sharry: I… by the way, again, I’ve been around a while, that’s so unusual, so kudos to you. And Mark, how’s it playing out in the field? I imagine it’s, well, obviously, your sales are off the charts, right? So talk a little bit about that.

Mark Fitzgerald: Yeah, we’ve enjoyed, you know, very good, steady growth. And it’s interesting, because when, when Phil and Gus first started the organization, they said they want to be steady, methodical, and grow it consistently. And as first on the sales side, we’re sitting there, okay, when are you going to step on the gas pedal like right out of the gate, right? You know, in hindsight, I look back and it was really the right thing to do. I think we’re the only company that’s had steady growth over the past seven years, consistently, you know, and to Jan’s point, like he and I work very, very closely in terms of every component of the product development side. So he truly listens to distribution. So he makes it fun for both of us, like we’re really… hey, how do we come out with the best solution that is beneficial on all fronts? So I guess bringing it to market kind of going back to the same fundamentals of what brings growth is starting with products. So from a product capability standpoint, a couple things have been dynamic. So recently, you know, product in general, in this rate environment, has been kind of easy to sit back and do the same types of things, right? We’ve seen the best product offerings out there that we have in a decade. So a lot of opportunity, from that standpoint, in terms of going back and upgrading some products that were on the books six, seven years ago, with much lower rates, much lower participation rates, much lower income. So like that, while offering a lot of growth, does put some challenge in terms of bringing something new and innovative, right? So getting something to make that change and you address it, the challenges with making change. So we’re definitely finding it, you know, exciting when we get people to kind of take a look at it in terms of the opportunity of something new. From a consumer perspective, at the end user standpoint, it’s interesting. Some of the studies, as you’ve done, I know, there’s the Nationwide study out there, three of four clients, you know, want to explore the opportunity to maximize income in retirement through the use of a tool like what you have. But on the flip side, what was interesting was 89% of individuals, like, feel they got a pretty good hand on it, right? So you have people coming in saying, hey, I get this. I understand Social Security. So I think the key is, is really getting advisors and agents to peel the onion back a little bit and, like, get it to the next level. Because I think by the time those individuals realize that, hey, I really didn’t have the best handle on it, it’s probably too late. So I think more time in terms of the front end education is critical, because there’s definitely a disconnect. From a marketer and agent standpoint, you almost look at that as two different levels and two different pathways of training, right? So from the national market organizations, you got the marketer that’s working with the agents, educating them, offering products out there to help serve the client needs. You know, the key with them is time, right? So getting them to see the value and the need and dedicate the time to retrain a lot of the producers that are already running business with them. And then at the at the agent level, it’s really kind of getting that comfort zone there in terms of bringing up something new, right? So you not only have a new process that they’re bringing into their practice, but also very different product that illustrates very differently. So I think there’s a benefit to that, you know? So there’s a challenge of bringing two things at the same time, but there’s a benefit because they play very, very well together, the way that they work in terms of integrating, you know, right down from the illustration standpoint to the product, I think, is huge.

Jack Sharry: So Jan, one of the areas where you’ve innovated with my favorite firm, LifeYield, at least the one I work for, and now part of SEI, so talk about a little bit about bringing the annuity and Social Security together. Of course, Social Security is an annuity, but why don’t you talk about all that, how did you come up with the idea? How did that play out? How is it playing out in the marketplace? Why don’t talk a little bit about the that combination? Because that fits under the heading what I call solution.

Jan Buchsbaum: Yeah. So, you know, when we think about Social Security and annuity and optimization. This is not a new concept, right? Jack, like, I think we talked about this 15-20, years ago. This is something that the industry, financial advisors, producers, have been wrestling with for decades, especially as like, you know the baby boomer wave is coming. How do you optimize this? All the different rules now they’re actually here, and there’s just a tremendous amount of opportunity. And so for years, people have been using all sorts of different ideas, right? So it wasn’t clear, do I take Social Security? Do I delay? How much do I take? How much do I delay? If I want to delay Social Security, but I’m retired, I need income now, do I use cash to pay for that? Do I get some sort of fixed period annuity, or a MIGA or some sort of withdrawal to fill that gap, and then buy an annuity that I turn on later? Or do I buy an annuity that I turn on now, like all of these different combinations of questions and imaginations of what you can do. And we in this industry have been, have been wrestling for a long time. Wouldn’t it be great if there just could be one solution that says, okay, here’s my situation, here’s how old I am, here’s my wife, here’s my income, my spouse. Here’s how much that person makes, what I make, and then it presses a button.

Jack Sharry: Imagine this.

Jan Buchsbaum: Imagine. Imagine this existed. Imagine this. You press the button, and then it said, okay, here’s what you should do to optimize your Social Security. Okay? And then you had another question said, okay, but I need one… is there, imagine there would be one solution, product, solution that can fit to allow me to do this. Can I press another button and then it just does it for me, right? Is there a way that I could enter in me, my personal situation, press two buttons and have the solution done for me, right? This is what we’ve been talking about for decades. And so when you think about that, that is the thing that the consumer wants, right? We talk about annuity. We talk about this. The consumer wants to be able to press a button or two and have it all laid out, say, hey, do this, and this will take care. Well, that’s what we’ve built.

Jack Sharry: What is the product called?

Jan Buchsbaum: So the product is called, it’s Nassau Income Accelerator, but specifically with a flex forward rider.

Jack Sharry: For the uninitiated, why don’t you explain all that?

Jan Buchsbaum: I’ll explain all of that. And what we did was, I think it’s important, is that we’ve built this product with inside where you actually illustrated inside LifeYield’s Social Security optimization tool. And so the combination has created the ability to do exactly what I described in one spot.

Jack Sharry: And for those of you who may not be familiar with all things annuity, just translate a little bit, if I might, so the Social Security optimizer that LifeYield has offered for a decade or more and over 100,000 advisors use the tool basically says, here’s the best way to take Social Security benefits, best timing and so forth, whatever your spousal situation is, right? So that’s one tool. And then what Jan has so artfully designed is a product that goes hand in hand with that recommendation and then essentially optimizes the annuity product portion of that along with what the government offers and benefits. Did I get that right, by the way?

Jan Buchsbaum: Perfect, better than me probably.

Jack Sharry: No, not at all. But my point for that, especially for… one other thing I’ll just add, having grown up and spend a lot of time in the annuity world, fundamentally, a lot of people that are on the asset management side say, well, annuity, shm-annuity, whatever. It’s just, you know, no one wants to guarantee blah, blah, blah. Wrong. Clients want, at least for part of their portfolio, they want to have a guarantee, they just do. And Social Security is one of those guarantees. Then you add another guarantee called whatever type of annuity you want to put together. Jan can describe that in a moment, but the idea is that you really make them feel comfortable, and by the way, more comfortable in investing other parts of their portfolio because they have that kind of security. But again, getting ahead of myself. So why don’t you…

Jan Buchsbaum: No, no, absolutely. And by the way, not to get on a complete tangent, but I will. I’ll digress for 30 seconds. And one of the things, Jack, I remember we talked about this for decades also, is that people say, oh, I don’t need an annuity. I don’t want to do this, I’ll just get a bond. I’ll take withdrawals. Well, annuities and insurance companies can do something that no one else can do, and we can leverage mortality or longevity benefits. No individual knows how long they’re going to live, but we can spread risk across multiple people, which allows us to create benefits that one cannot do on their own, that you can only do through an insurance company, and that is like the core value of a lot of these products, especially when we’re talking about guaranteeing. So I know that’s a little bit of an aside, but…

Jack Sharry: Sure, no aside. It sounds fundamental to me. Yep. So, so Mark, one of the challenges I know as you’re out in the field with your sales force and working with producers and so forth, is education. So talk about that. How do you do that? Where do you do that? How does that, because my experience with advisors, I’ve worked with many over long periods of time, have led wholesaling organizations as you know, one of the challenges is to get people to do something new. It’s also a challenge to get something that may be something they’re not familiar with or comfortable with. So talk a little bit about the education, training, inspiration process.

Mark Fitzgerald: Yeah, and I think it really encompasses all of the above. It’s kind of multi-level training, if you will. So we need to educate the marketing groups, basically, to get them to realize the value of taking the time to explain it to the agents that they’re working with and get them to do something different than they’re used to. Secondly, it’s the agents and getting them to understand, hey, there’s a lot more than just this one solution that’s going to benefit your practice. The value of becoming that trusted agent or advisor, the value of bringing in more assets and uncovering more assets, and the pure flexibility behind it, right? So if you’re having that conversation around Social Security, you’re helping that individual maximize their lifetime income. And then you go back to annuities, and you think about the importance of guaranteed lifetime income, while simultaneously pensions are becoming less and less prominent out there, so there’s a true need for it, and the pure flexibility of this product, where you can really kind of fast forward the income between zero and eight years, and as a big bandwidth in terms of what that income can be based on that so it gives a lot of opportunity for that individual say, hey, I really can retire today yet still maximize my Social Security for several years down the road, rather than option two being have to stay working during those periods of time and not give up on the lifetime income. And then while at the end of the acceleration period, that guaranteed lifetime income does drop down the net net benefit with that higher Social Security brings them a net increase in overall income. So, and you can dial this all in and see the numbers work, like, as you go by individual so it’s a very powerful tool. And the key is, is making it so that people don’t view it as being, like, so onerous upfront, because it’s so simple, like, once you kind of get in it and start working with it, it’s very intuitive. It’s very easy to understand. And I think that’s the first hurdle is really getting people to understand, take that first step.

Jan Buchsbaum: Let’s start with Social Security, for example. Let’s say someone has a Social Security benefit that if they took it at 62 they would get $15,000 a year. Now, if they delayed it, I think it’s something like for four years to 66 it’s something like 32% more, so they’d get around $20,000 a year, right? So there’s a pretty big and they get it for life. So there’s a pretty big incentive, in that case, to delay their Social Security, right? But they’re retiring now, okay? Or they’re 55 and they know they want to retire at 62. The beauty of this product is that it works just the same way any other guaranteed income annuity works. You purchase the product. You don’t have to decide what you’re going to do till you’re ready to turn it on. So if you want to wait til 62 or wait til 66 and take level guaranteed income for your whole life, you can absolutely do that the way you would any other guaranteed annuity. The beauty of this is that you can actually dial up how much you want to take early in the process, right? So let’s say you the annuity, if you turned it on at 62 and give you $5,000 every year for life, you may be able to say, you know what, I want to dial up, and I want to take $10,000 for four years right to hit that to meet that gap of what I’m giving up, because I’m not taking my Social Security for four years, and then you’ll get a little bit lower on the annuity later, but you’re going to get more on the Social Security, so the combination of both of those two give you even higher guaranteed income. And to Mark’s point about the ease of use, you don’t have to make that decision til you actually turn it on. You buy it, you have it, you know you have the guaranteed income. And then you can decide, almost to the dollar, how much you want to take at the time you turn it on. And you could decide how long you want to do it. Maybe you only want it higher for one year. Maybe you want it higher for up to eight years, six years, three years. You could dial both how long and how much you want to take early at the time that you actually turn on the income. So it’s really kind of simple and then easy to use, and then you don’t have to make the decision. And to me, the optionality that it gives consumers to know that, hey, I have this added protection. I have this added option that no other guaranteed income annuity, I believe, provides. It just creates so much peace of mind. And to me, the goal is to allow people have the best retirement they possibly can. We want people to party, and we’re trying to help people do it.

Jack Sharry: You don’t hear that often in an annuity sale, but it’s true. You know, it’s interesting on how, and again, for my friends that are not as familiar with these sorts of things, what’s interesting here is there is a natural increase or I don’t know if it’s natural or it’s in the rules, it’s in the regs, that people that defer Social Security benefits til 70 have more money. There’s just more available. So by buying early with the annuity, you’re having the annuity grow. You’re having the the Social Security benefits grow, and then if you want whether you want to take retire early or get an income sooner than you might otherwise, for whatever reason, you can do that, or you can wait and just have more income later. So essentially, what you’re doing is using sort of the Social Security benefits that are available to you as a way to kind of hedge your bet and also know you’re going to get more and you may not need to tap into it til later. I imagine that gives, Mark, I’m sure you see this from a sales perspective, this has got to give a lot of comfort to both the advisor and the client, no?

Mark Fitzgerald: Without a doubt. I mean, the key is obviously having that solution and having confidence in terms of what their long-term outcome is going to be.

Jack Sharry: Yep. So one thing I’ll add, and I’ve talked to Mark about this in a recent conversation we were having. So we work with many of the largest firms in the industry around Social Security benefits. You don’t see our name often because they usually have some name like Merrill Lynch on top of it, but this tool is very popular across the industry, and basically the name of a firm which I can’t repeat, they find 91% of the advisors use the tool, and we thought it was because of the benefits of the Social Security tool. As it turns out, really what we found out is we talked to a few advisors, many advisors in fact, I met Merrill Lynch with an advisor, and he uses the tool. Didn’t know it was related to me, but in any event, he’s like yeah, we use it all the time. The whole idea is that it uncovers money because for many people, if you show them as they’re near retirement, they’ve got a few things on their mind, one of which is when should I start Social Security? So if you can give an answer, call it wait, because you’re gonna have more later, if you can wait. Most folks, frankly, at that firm, can wait. But also what happens is that, by virtue of waiting for that money, the money it can be demonstrated and Jan I’m going to ask you to talk about this in a moment, and can demonstrate the value of waiting in terms of the more dollars down the road. That all said, what ends up happening is they finally average at said firm is like $190,000 for a 10 year period following, if they defer to their, you know, taking their Social Security at age 70, there’s $191,000 more that the advisor uncovers. And then the client says, so what do I do about my rollover? In other words, you help them find money, and then it uncovers more money. Because what they’re looking for is they’re looking for comfort, and if they’re inclined toward an annuity, they’re going to get it there. They’re glad to see that not only are the Social Security benefits going to be an important part of it, but that it’s going to be more if they wait. And then the next question, so I have a rollover to what do I do with that? So, Jan, why don’t you talk a little bit about demonstrating the value.

Jan Buchsbaum: Yeah, I think absolutely, like the value is in for consumers, is about solutioning. So if you’re presenting the consumer with, hey, here’s a problem you have, we’re going to try and solve that problem. Rather than buy this or that product or mutual fund or whatever it is, you are going to uncover those assets, because the better chance a consumer is going to want to engage with you and provide all of that information. And the way the tool works, it does a great job of you have to go in and kind of enter in your information. Enter in, you’re filling in your age, you’re filling in what your assets are. And then you’re uncovering this ability to save and then the question naturally comes up, okay, what do I do with my money? What is the optimal solution? And one of the cool things I should say, and I alluded to this earlier, is so the LifeYield tool that we have, we’ve actually built this product, the flex forward capability into the tool. So what happens is, they could work through the solution. They could say, it gets to the consumer, say, here’s what you should do. You should wait three years, and here’s the gap. Then you could press a button and it literally fills in the income gap and shows you using the solution, a product that we created with a the flex forward rider. It actually solves it for you. So that imaginary thing that we were talking about earlier, that exists, and you could do that today by combining the LifeYield tool along with our solution. It’s all built in. So all the illustration, all the software, it actually works and makes it super easy for the consumer, and then afterwards they can play with it. You could do, what if this? What if that? And it’s just incredibly flexible and very, very consumer advisor oriented.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, we don’t want to leave out the Social Security Administration, they’re a contributor here in terms of the 8% per year increase they give you between age, was it 60?

Jan Buchsbaum: Make sure we’re taking advantage of it, right?

Jack Sharry: Absolutely. Well, gentlemen, we try to keep our show to a half an hour, we’ve far exceeded it, I believe, at this point. But this has been well worthwhile, just as we look to wrap up any key takeaways you want to leave with our audience? Mark, why don’t you kick it off?

Mark Fitzgerald: Yeah, I think, as Jan pointed out, I think providing more than just product is the key these days. And Jack, you taught me that 20 plus years ago in terms of coming out with different solutions to taking product out of the center of the conversation. I think the beautiful thing about where we’re at right now is we’re kind of firing on all cylinders. We’ve got a great product portfolio. It’s been consistent. We collaborate great internally and with our partners. We’re having a lot of fun doing it, and we’re bringing a lot of value to the agent and consumer. That’s great. That’s great. Jan, how about you? I would just add, like I mentioned earlier, we are hyper focused on providing solutions for our partners and consumers that matter, that enhance their lives, and we are constantly, always trying to figure out how we can be better. Every single day, we wake up and say, okay, that was good. How do we get better? How do we make a better solution? How do we provide more value? And to me, that constant focus on growth, never resting on success that we’ve had, is core to what we’ve been and I think it’s just going to make it so much fun for what we’re going to be able to provide in the future.

Jack Sharry: Gentlemen, thank you. This has been a great conversation. Really appreciate your weighing in. I love, as I mentioned early on, loved innovation, disruption, and all the rest. So thanks for doing that for our industry and for your firm, and our firm for that matter. So thank you for all that. For our audience, thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed our podcast, please rate, review, subscribe, and share what we’re doing here at WealthTech on Deck. We’re available wherever you get your podcasts. You should also check us out at our dedicated website, wealthtechondeck.com. All of our episodes are there, along with blogs and curated content from many folks around the industry. Thank you again, gentlemen, really appreciate. It’s been a real pleasure. We’ll be talking soon, I’m sure.

Mark Fitzgerald: Awesome. Thank you, Jack.