The Evolution and Resurgence of SEI with Ryan Hicke and Sean Denham

Jack Sharry: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us for a unique edition of WealthTech on Deck. As our listeners know, we speak with the best and brightest in our industry around the confluence of digital and human advice. I’m privileged to have conversations with senior executives across the industry about their strategies and where they see their firm and the industry headed. I especially enjoy speaking with innovators and disruptors. One of the original disruptors around the confluence of digital and human advice, going back more than 55 years, is SEI. Arguably, SEI is among the first firms that understood the importance of combining technology, asset management, and operations, and they’re still at it, going strong over the past five decades. As our listeners know, I pay close attention to firms that are shaking things up, and I’ve been following and admiring SEI for a long time. It’s been a little bit quiet lately, except probably about a year or so ago, I started noticing they were popping up all over the place. So I had a couple of executives that joined us on our podcast, saw that they were making smart moves, and then got to hear the stories they were on the show. So the story is compelling, and as I learned more about what the firm was up to, I became increasingly intrigued. And as smart firms do, they decided to shake things up by inviting me to attend their recent SEI Advisor Summit and to interview their senior leaders for our WealthTech on Deck podcast. So this is a first for us to actually have, be at a conference and interview some of the folks that are putting it on. So along with the 350 advisors, financial advisors, I attended their conference in Phoenix, and was able to hear their story firsthand. And wow, what a story. It’s a great story. I had the opportunity to speak with many SEI leaders, including the CEO and CFO, along with heads of some of their business units to hear about their strategy and plans and what we might expect from them. Just as they shook things up a half a century ago and changed our industry for good, they are back at it in a big way. For this episode, let’s kick things off with my conversation with Ryan Hicke SEI’s CEO. We’re also going to hear from Sean Denham, who is the CFO of SEI, who joined the firm in March. Ryan will kick off this particular podcast session. Ryan is responsible for SEI’s global business strategy and execution across the firm’s three pillars of expertise: technology, operations, and asset management. Ryan also serves on the SEI board of directors, so stay tuned and hear what Ryan has to say about where SEI is headed. Ryan, great to be together.

Ryan Hicke: Jack, thanks for having me.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, this’ll be fun. So you’ve been with SEI for 26 years, and last two of which you’ve been the CEO. Lots of positive change, lots of good things going. What are you excited about? What’s happening?

Ryan Hicke: Yeah, I think about that in a few different ways, Jack. So if you start externally, the market engagement is as high as it’s been maybe in my whole 26 year career, I just feel like we’re back out in front of clients. We’re back out telling the SEI story, and it makes us a lot more knowledgeable about what the trends are, where really we should be focusing, how we could differentiate. And then if you juxtapose that with internal, I know this sounds a little bit silly, Jack, but people ask me a lot, how do I measure engagement at SEI? And I sincerely answer by how many people walk the halls with a smile on their face. And I don’t mean this in a negative way. I feel like a few years ago, people weren’t smiling as much, but you even see it here at the con… the everybody’s got a smile on their face. They’re excited to be here. They want to be here. And I’m really proud of, I think, the trajectory of the culture internally right now.

Jack Sharry: That’s great. That’s great. So I’ve been a student of SEI for probably 26 years, And what I observe is, it was, it’s been a great firm, is… I think of them, you, as one of the original disruptors. And then went quiet for a while. Just didn’t hear from you so much. In the last year, like you guys seem to be popping all over the place. So what’s going on? What is it that you’re doing? What are some of the things that you’re making happen?

Ryan Hicke: So if you think back to maybe four or five years ago, when we started the conversations with the board and the executive team around succession, which is very difficult thing, right? You know, Al is the Chairman, the founder, was CEO for 54 years. But I think one of the pillars, if you will, Jack, of my my strategy and my positioning for taking responsibility for the role, was we really needed to reignite that energy in the market. We needed to go recapture that position as an innovator, as a disrupter. You can’t do that from inside the four walls of Oaks, Pennsylvania. And I say this a lot to our own employees. We allowed the competition to control the narrative on SEI for too many years. And I think part of our excitement and enthusiasm is going out and making sure that if somebody is coming to a conclusion about SEI, they’re fully informed, and that we’re the ones providing that information. So it feels really good right now.

Jack Sharry: So you’ve got the place hopping, that’s…

Ryan Hicke: We’re getting close.

Jack Sharry: Well, yes, more to go. Always more to go.

Ryan Hicke: Everything’s relative, right?

Jack Sharry: Yes, yes. But I noticed just all the folks that I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with, they’re genuinely excited and turned on about what’s happening. I’m sure all this comes off of as you have embraced this role as CEO over the past couple of years, you’re looking at bigger trends. So what are those, some of those bigger trends that you’re looking at that you’re now trying to capitalize on?

Ryan Hicke: Yeah, so, if you think about, and I’ll keep it really high level, some of the global trends, Jack, right? What’s going on really, with changing consumer experiences, like, when we start thinking about the next generation and how they want to engage, how they want to be informed, it’s going to be very different from the way you and I wanted to, you know, engage. So how are we actually looking at that from a what is the client going to need perspective? I think if you come down a level into our industry, I think there’s three major trends right now. What’s going on with alternatives? I think the consolidation in the intermediary space is extremely interesting. And then if you think about digital assets and tokenization, we have a close eye on that. I’m not exactly sure where that one’s going to go. The other two, I think, have clearer paths, but we can’t be left on the sidelines on the tokenization and digital asset side of things, especially for our investment manager services business. But the first two around alts and consolidation, it’s everywhere.

Jack Sharry: And maybe at a slightly higher level than that, those sort of product areas or those category areas, I noticed that you guys are a lot about experience. In other words, what the user, in this case, the advisor and their client, their experience. I’ve seen that in the titles of what people call themselves around here. So experience seems to be pretty important. Tell me about that.

Ryan Hicke: It’s huge, but I think what’s happened, Jack, is we need to step back sometimes and really redefine what we mean by user experience. So in many cases, we have all these capabilities, but we don’t make it really easy for people to find them. We don’t avail them to people in a simple way. So one of the things that we talk a lot about internally, Jack, is I don’t understand why financial services, why can’t we leapfrog what’s going on in financial services and create more of a Netflix-like experience? So I’m going to get on a plane today, and if I want to watch a movie, there’s categories down the left hand side, comedy, drama, documentary. I don’t know why we can’t create a similar type experience and just leapfrog what’s going on. And then I think the other part of user experience is, are we genuinely listening to the feedback from our clients and just trying to simplify? I think at the end of the day, because we all have so much passion about subject matter expertise, we lose sight that seven clicks to do something, maybe we didn’t need all these little bells and whistles. The features sound great, but I think simple wins at the end of the day, Jack, and I think we’re trying to get back to that.

Jack Sharry: Yep. So way back, I think SEI has been around 55 years.

Ryan Hicke: Yes.

Jack Sharry: Really started, I think, as the original disruptor, what I call the confluence of digital and human advice started way back then and carried forward. You guys have been really big in the banking business. You’ve grown in the advisor business. You’re clearly getting… building out a real strong team. I want to talk about that in just a moment. But as you’re building out these capabilities, I do notice that you’ve brought on a lot of big players, important players, people like Michael Lane and your new CFO. Talk about that.

Ryan Hicke: So I think if you really believe that talent is going to win the day, you can’t just focus internally. And I am a 26 year veteran of SEI. I am super passionate, Jack, about our people, and we’re trying to create more opportunities for our employees to grow. Because of the diversity of SEI’s businesses, we have a really interesting kind of ecosystem for people to grow and learn. But there’s arrogance, Jack, if we think we have all the answers ourselves. And I gotta tell you, and I’m probably just as guilty of this years ago, we used to reject the organ if we brought somebody in from the outside. We definitely had “not invented here syndrome,” and we talked about that a lot as a leadership team 18 months ago, and we literally made that decision as a team with the board as well. And I said, look, if we’re able to go get people like Sneha and Michael Lane and Sean Denham, are we going to embrace them? Are we going to let them have a little bit of a runway to put their own stamp on things? And I’m a wisdom of the crowds guy, Jack. I think if we can truly create a diverse team, both in terms of experience, perspective, we won’t end up with groupthink, and I see it in our leadership meetings. Michael doesn’t see the world the way Sean sees the world, the way Sanjay sees the world. That’s super healthy, and it’s my job, I think, sometimes, to foster an atmosphere and an environment that that’s okay. And then we don’t get too distracted by consensus, but we allow some healthy tension and some debate and then make some decisions.

Jack Sharry: That’s great.

Ryan Hicke: At the end of the day, everybody right now just wants to win.

Jack Sharry: Yes, so you built the foundation starting 55 years ago, and when it comes to the back office and operations, when it comes to product, when it comes to technology, you guys are leaders at all of those.

Ryan Hicke: Yes.

Jack Sharry: And now you’re building the team in terms of the new folks, the folks you already have in place are great. So now, where’s it go? Where do you want to get?

Ryan Hicke: So I think in the short term, let’s call it 18 to 36 months, Jack. I think the trick for SEI that we have to stay focused on is stop defining ourselves in the vertical. And what I mean by that is Michael Lane’s a perfect example of this. Michael Lane’s already coming in and going, why aren’t we taking our OCIO platform that we go to institutional clients, why aren’t we taking that out to enterprise RIAs? Sanjay is taking the wealth platform out to insurance companies. We’re now sitting in front, I’ll give you a better example, Jack. We had an executive in from a large global asset manager last Wednesday, and they are a client of the banking business today. She met with five different executives across SEI’s other businesses, she walked away with a totally different perspective of who we are. Doesn’t necessarily mean she’s going to buy more from us, Jack, but she literally walked out of that building going, I had no idea that SEI had all these businesses. So to answer your question, if you think about the next two to four years, we really have to take that positioning. We need to go unlock that. And then when you think about the next 55 years, Jack, and that’s how we think about things, which is really liberating. Like the quarter ends today, so I know what our numbers are. Sean and I will do that earnings call. The board is going to hold me accountable. But they’re not really asking, how did we do in the last 90 days? They want to know, how are we doing in the next 90 months? What are we really doing to set this place up for longevity? Which I also think is an interesting backdrop right now amidst all these companies going private. So my wish, Jack, honest answer is, I hope we are a better culture. I hope clients love working with us. I hope the market caps 20 to 25 billion in four to five years, but I actually hope people still hold SEI with the respect and integrity that I’m really proud of.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. Yeah, you guys are… I love the story. I’m a fan of good stories all throughout my career, and I love the story I’m seeing unfold with SEI. So what haven’t I asked you that I should ask you?

Ryan Hicke: Maybe the awkward question people feel uncomfortable asking sometimes is, what were we doing? So everybody talks about how much we’re back out there.

Jack Sharry: Yes.

Ryan Hicke: But where were we?

Jack Sharry: Yes.

Ryan Hicke: And I think the honest answer to that is, and by the way, I own this too, Jack, I was on the executive team, so I can’t point fingers here. And COVID didn’t help with this, but we fell into a little bit of a trap of explaining why we were losing but putting a period at the end of that sentence, instead of a comma, instead of then saying, hey, there’s a lot of our advisors are getting bought by broker dealers and PE firms. That’s not a period, Jack, that’s a comma. We have a huge balance sheet. We’re not going to stand on the sidelines. We weren’t getting a lot of traction in our banking business, and we would talk about instability of our platform, and now our banking business is humming because we just stopped listening to our own excuses, and we held people accountable to say, what do you need to go in? Al will get it for us. The board will get it. The board, I have so much support from the board, it’s like tell me what you need to go win and we’ll go do it. So I think people are super respectful, but we have to own the fact that we weren’t doing what we should have been doing, except for maybe the IMS business from 2018 to 2021. I think that’s fair, Jack.

Jack Sharry: Yeah.

Ryan Hicke: I really do.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. You know, one of the things I find fascinating about what you have put together, your timing was probably pretty good that you were a little bit late to the party because I observed the rest of the industry having, now living through what they hath wrought.

Ryan Hicke: Well, I’d like your view on this. I think the market, five years ago, rewarded revenue at any cost.

Jack Sharry: Right, exactly.

Ryan Hicke: And they did not care about profit. I used to sit across from analysts who said, I don’t care about your profit. And I was the CIO at the time, and I’d say, you don’t care about our profit? They said, no, it’s all about top line growth. And I said, but what if it’s bad top line growth? What if you’re dragging a whole bunch of wounded bears back into that village? That looks great. And what’s so cool right now, Jack, is we’re getting credit in the market for the sales momentum, but we’re also getting credit for earnings growth. And I think some of our competitors, and I have a lot of respect for these men and women. I like them. Some of them are my friends, but I think it became a revenue at any cost game, and nobody was really thinking about the strategic or technical debt they were building up by doing that. And I think that there is a little bit of a reconciliation happening right now, which I think is actually super healthy.

Jack Sharry: I totally agree.

Ryan Hicke: That we talk about this all the time. Our analysts want to know what our sales event number is for the quarter. I get it. I understand the question, but I’ll say to them all the time, the number in itself is irrelevant if you don’t understand what’s in the number. If we do $30 million of sales events in a quarter, but it’s one $28 million deal that has $50 million of development attached to it, that’s a crap quarter, Jack. It may look great top line, we’re not proud of that quarter. If we have a $30 million sales event quarter, and it was six regional and community banks, four new alternative investment managers, 10 new RIAs and hybrid firms moving that we know we can install and service really well. If that’s a $28 million quarter, that’s a way better quarter than the other one. And we’re trying to explain that. Sean’s doing a great job of working with the investor community to try to help us, help them to understand, what are we looking at, and what questions should they be asking? But what’s your view, like, with how the markets have changed the last kind of three to five years?

Jack Sharry: Well, over the past many years, three to five call it, a number of firms revenue at any cost, never integrated the stuff they bought. Just a pile of stuff, is what they have. And it’s, frankly, they still largely have a pile of stuff, and now they’re sorting, you know of what I speak, you’ve observed. Whereas you guys are, frankly, working on the hard stuff, the piping and wiring and plumbing, a lot of which you already had, but you’ve got it better connected. You’re advancing in terms of its capability. I’ve talked for many years about the confluence of digital and human advice, because that’s where the world was going five years ago or more. But certainly five years ago, it really hit hard. And so what I observe is that you’ve been doing that all along, but have real stuff. It’s the integration happened, the team came together. You have a clear focus and strategy you’re executing, and it’s all, as you well know, it’s all about execution at the end of the day. But you gotta have the stuff in place. You gotta have the infrastructure, which I observe you guys have.

Ryan Hicke: Yeah, and I think one of the things that the market got frustrated with was our build out of the SEI wealth platform and the… now we’re getting a lot of adoption. And you know what, Jack, I should have actually thought about this at the time, and we should have told the story differently. We built it from the back to the front, and we built it for scale, right? I mean, we have millions and millions of accounts and transactions running through, but that didn’t let the consumer see or feel anything. So I could tell you we could process a million corporate actions at the click of a button, but if you’re running a wealth management business, you would say, Ryan, that’s great. But where are the front office tools to help me engage with my client? Where are the portfolio… and now that we’re rolling all those things out, but I don’t think we explained clearly enough to the market that we were building this thing. We were building all those pipes in the back and making sure that, you know, the day everybody sent everybody home for the pandemic that week, we were the only firm that could rebalance the next day without any problem. But we needed to, we needed to change, I think, the story, and we’re doing a better job of it now. Now there’s more front office things. Plus, we didn’t really give our sales guys and sales women much fun things to go talk about, so I do think you’re absolutely right, and I get asked a lot about M&A, and we’ll do some things, Jack. We will. And we’re not allergic to debt. We’re not allergic to leveraging the balance sheet in different ways. I don’t think we would do anything transformational in the next few years, but we don’t have to.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, I was gonna say, you don’t have to.

Ryan Hicke: And I will not do a reclamation project. We have no need to. The foundation, organically, is so strong right now, we would look at maybe things additive, or things that maybe put us in a different position globally for some of our businesses, or, as I mentioned at the start of the podcast, what we’re going to do differently in the RIA community, and how we participate there, you’ll see us do some things there. I don’t think they’re big explosions, but we’re gonna play.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, you’ve set the foundation, as I said earlier, you’ve set the foundation. You got the plumbing and wiring and so forth. You’re working on the front end experience. Clearly, that’s been there all along, but that takes some time.

Ryan Hicke: Yeah, it does.

Jack Sharry: You first have to have the foundation in place. But what you have is you have a better offering terms of what the advisor and their clients get to use and see and feel. And to your point, I know you’re doing a lot of work with your various folks on the team around how do I make it faster, better, easier? How do I make it intuitive?

Ryan Hicke: And the other thing, I mean, you saw this last night, and I think it’s been really eye opening for Sean and Michael Lane, and they love it, is how clients go out of their way, especially at these events, to talk about the SEI people. And that’s an impossible thing to make tangible, I think a lot of times, unless people experience SEI but it’s fun to watch Sean and Michael get so excited when they hear how much people think the SEI team are different, and we’re going to continue to invest in that too.

Jack Sharry: That’s great. Ryan, this has been terrific. I really have enjoyed the conversation. We’ll, we’ll have to do this more.

Ryan Hicke: Yeah, thanks for having me for having me.

Jack Sharry: Real good.

Ryan Hicke: Great.

Jack Sharry: I had not met Ryan before our conversation in Phoenix. In addition to his conversation with me, I also saw him on stage speaking to the 350 advisors who attended the SEI Summit. Ryan is as dynamic on stage as he is in conversation. My next podcast conversation at the summit was with their new CFO, Sean Denham. He’s another dynamic figure. We’ll hear from Sean as he shares his perspective on where he sees SEI headed into the future. So, Sean, very nice to meet you. Thanks for spending a little time with us. I gather you’re new to SEI, and you’re the CFO for the company. Tell us a little bit about how long you’ve been here, and how’d you get here?

Sean Denham: Yeah, so I’ve been with SEI only about six months now. I worked for, I was a partner in a public accounting firm, Grant Thornton, for the last two decades. Never thought in a million years I would have left Grant Thornton to let alone becoming CFO of a public company, CFO in the financial services space. But the way I found myself at SEI, I had known Ryan Hicke, SEI’s CEO for a number of years. We had sat on a number of boards together in the Philadelphia community. Had gotten to know each other over the years, and actually when my current, well, my predecessor, now, Dennis McGonigle announced his retirement from SEI, probably about a year ago, actually a year ago. I actually started trying to help SEI find their next CFO by sending them a number of resumes, etc, when the conversation turned to, what about you? And so after many months of saying not interested, getting to know a little bit more about SEI, speaking to some other members of the executive team, doing some really good research on SEI and the opportunities that SEI has in front of it. It was really a no brainer at that point. So the last six months has been a whirlwind, for sure, understanding the business, getting to know our clients, and it’s been a lot of fun.

Jack Sharry: Cool. So talk a little bit about shifting from being an advisor to a firm to being of the firm, in the firm. Talk a little bit more about growth in a little bit, but talk a little bit about that transition. Unique vantage point, having advised others, now you’re in charge.

Sean Denham: Yeah. It is definitely, it is definitely a change. So trying to find out ways to get in front of buyers, executives of other companies, and now being one of those, it’s been really 180 degree turn, and seeing how individuals want to get in front of me and sell their services has been fun. Actually, I look back over the last 30 years of being consultant, if you will, or working for professional services firms. And I think I could have been a lot better now being on this side of the table, understanding some of the techniques others have used to get in front of me, and really leveraging those in my prior life.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. One of the things I talked to Ryan earlier and impressed with all the talent he’s brought on, you among them, Michael Lane, who we just started on stage and Sneha from a little bit further back, and many others, you’re part of that crew. So I would think his charisma, Ryan’s charisma, had a little bit to do with it, but talk a little bit about what attracted you to SEI. Why the move?

Sean Denham: I’ll pretend I didn’t hear that about Ryan. I don’t want to give him any fodder on…. but he is very charismatic.

Jack Sharry: Totally.

Sean Denham: And knowing him for as long as I did, we’ve had many dinners over the years talking about various things, including who might be the next CEO of SEI. And he and I spent a lot of time over the years talking about that and his positioning, etc. But the opportunity at SEI now, being in the four walls of it for six months, it’s one thing to be talking about hypotheticals with Ryan for the many, many months leading up to the decision for me to join SEI and where those opportunities were. But now actually being in it, being waist deep in it, working with the team, working with the business units, it’s actually much more than I ever thought it could have been. Being a public company comes with a lot of responsibility to the shareholders, the investors or employees as well, who are also shareholders. I take that very seriously, especially in the CFO role, but when I think opportunity, it’s not just earnings per share opportunity. It’s really growth. It’s growth, the opportunity to really maximize, become more efficient as an organization. And so every day I wake up, that’s really what I’m focused on, top line revenue growth, optimizing the business, and really that return to investors.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. So one of the things Ryan and I talked about is how the foundation was set, starting 55 years ago, and over time, has been built out, and you got all the plumbing and piping and the wiring and the foundational aspect of the business, and you continue to have done that. And with Ryan’s ascension a couple years ago, clearly the move is not only to shore all that up and make it make it stronger, but then to start to shift, so how do we grow? Where do we go next as SEI is considering what that might look like. So talk a little bit about that. I gather you have a gather you have a background in growth orientation. So talk about how that came together.

Sean Denham: I do. I’m a little bit of a lunatic when it comes to it. I mean, we all have different things we lean on in our professional life. I lean on growth. So whether it’s first thing in the morning of waking up, growth mindset, waking up at two o’clock in the morning and working through different talk tracks in my mind for buyers, or how to think about the business differently. What I talk a lot about is the mind of the buyer. So what I did in my previous employ was really create and execute on enterprise growth strategies. And so that’s really what I’m passionate about. So when people at SEI say, why are you talking to us about growth? You’re the chief financial officer. It is a little different. It’s a different perspective that I’m bringing into the organization. But how I think about growth is really from the mind of the buyer, and I speak about that a lot. I actually have a knitted thing that someone had built for me or crafted for me years ago in a little frame on my desk that says, mind to the buyer. But everything I think about and everything I think SEI will be thinking about is the lens of the buyer. So we’re at an advisor conference, and even last night, as an example, I spoke to probably eight, nine, ten different advisors about their business. What do they need to grow? And so it’s not about what we want to sell into the market or provide to an advisor. It’s actually what they need. The ideas that came out of just last night’s cocktail hour about how they’re thinking about generational transfer of their organization, what does that future look like? Had a lot of… asked a lot of questions about, how are you thinking about alternative investments? That is a really, really hot topic in the market today. They need help, and they need education around that. They’re really not talking to a lot of their clients about alts right now. That’s incumbent upon us to be supporting them in that way. So it’s not what just us selling technology and selling asset management type services, but it’s really those professional services and assistance that we can provide to the advisors. That’s really what I get excited about, and what I did really, really well with my previous employ and what I’m bringing here is the art of education. So no one, no one in the world, in today’s society, wants to be sold to. They want to be educated. So how do we use data? How do we craft storytelling around that data to go educate the market and then, not just with us, but also our competitors? So if you can have an end user or a buyer, first off, allow us to educate them on whatever that may be, not just us, but the market, our competitors, and everything going around in that marketplace. It positions us really well. It’s not something SEI has done historically, but that’s something I think that that’s the opportunity sitting in front of us.

Jack Sharry: So, we just listened to a session where Ryan was on the panel, along with other execs from the executive team, talking about growth and growth initiatives and where SEI goes next. I have to say, as an observer of C suite level folks through our podcast and otherwise, it’s rare, the rare CFO that’s talking about growth, love to hear that that’s all part of it. It sounds like you came in on that basis, with that mandate to make that happen. Am I hearing that right?

Sean Denham: I did. I did. And so yes, while I am the CFO I am operating as well, kind of in that COO lane, but also that Chief Revenue Officer lane. And so even two Fridays ago, led all of our business units through a growth strategy conversation. It was a really well received conversation, how we present ourselves into the marketplace, and really how we need to present ourself into the marketplace differently, how we position ourselves. So I could talk on this, I mean, this podcast would be, you know, a dozen minutes or so. I could talk on this topic for three to four hours. It’s something that really energizes me.

Jack Sharry: Well, I will have you back to have that conversation, for sure, because one of the things we talk about often on the podcast, we talk strategy. But fundamentally, strategy is only as good as what you’re going to do about growth, and that’s..

Sean Denham: Execution.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. Growth and execution, yeah.

Sean Denham: Fundamental.

Jack Sharry: And how did that go, in terms of the conversation? I’m sure everyone was receptive to it. But then how do you execute? How do you make that happen? How do you move from strategy…? Or how do you conceive and develop the strategy and then how do you go execute on it?

Sean Denham: Yeah. So, so first off, I think our strategy is right. So you talk strategy, and then from there, sometimes you… it’s really just some basic tactics. So as we think about our SEI’s business, from a AUA, assets under administration, assets under management, then professional services. So I think how we’re thinking about the business and the strategy behind it is right. It’s now how we execute, and really it’s how we present ourselves, and probably the hardest thing for any organization to do, and if you really think about what is being I mean, everything has become commoditized. So how do you un-commoditize a commodity? And so that’s what I feel I do really, really well, is to un-commoditize the commodity and really understand the mind of the buyer, of what… why they’re buying certain things.

Jack Sharry: So take me through that exercise. When you’re considering the buyer… I always try to think in terms of, what is the audience, what can they hear? What, what moves the needle? How do you do that? What… give me an example.

Sean Denham: Yeah. So I’ll give you a really good example. It’s not an SEI example, but I’ll give you a really good example. So at Grand Thornton, what was a very unpopular thing initially, was to really understand what our services were. And it’s very difficult for an organization to actually sell, say, we sell commodities, right. And that, you know, we like to sell on quality or relationships. Those are very fluffy things to sell. Everyone says they have great quality. Everyone, you can… you actually can quantify quality. But selling saying we have white glove service, or we do this, or we do that, everyone says that. And when, now I’m on this side of the table, it even becomes more crystal clear. So when people sell you in that way, you can dismiss it, but when you start using data, data in a meaningful way, I wish I had my graphs and my graphics and some of the things we did. It’s very simple. But, so, even from an audit standpoint. So Grant Thornton was the fifth largest firm, is the fifth largest accounting firm in the world. There’s something called the big four, which everyone knows about. Big Four dominates the market. They own about 98% of the market between the four firms and GT and some of the other firms were really trying to find their spot and take their market share. And so what I did for the firm, with the firm, but what I led was so the big four can charge a premium in their pricing models because of this term called the big four. So I had just mentioned trying to un-commoditize a commodity. What I actually did is try to commoditize them and say, and there was a lot of data to support that, things around stock price. So as a just… I’ll give you one data point, and we’ll leave it there. But a buyer of audit services, audit services, you’re buying an audit opinion. So when… in order to charge a premium for a commodity, if you’re going to charge a premium for a commodity, there has to be a reason. The big four use the term their brand and market acceptance. So you have to use the big four from a market… or the market won’t accept your opinion. So, looked at those barriers. And one of those barriers is stock price. So you would assume, you would make an assumption, that, using data that the day before and the day after a switch in accounting firms from GT to the big four, the big four to GT, there should be a change in stock price. What the data suggests is that there isn’t, there’s actually a 0% change in stock price. And then once you start educating the market, so you’re going to, you’re going to charge a large premium for this service or this brand, but the market actually doesn’t care, and they’re like, well, I think, no… Well, here’s the data to suggest it. So using data to educate audit committees, CFOs, C suite, and buyers. So you want to go pay $2 million more for an opinion that actually doesn’t matter within relative terms, can’t be a no name firm like zero credibility, but by just using data in that way, and there’s lots of other data points that we… from a market cap study. And where do you play and how do you segment the market using data and then educating the market of where you play, as opposed to just allowing someone else to tell the market where you play. So really, really interesting. And it, by using that data in that way, completely changed the growth trajectory of Grant Thornton.

Jack Sharry: Interesting. And I’m assuming you’re gonna apply a similar kind of thinking?

Sean Denham: Exactly the same way. The amount of data at SEI is limitless, so it’s now, how do you harness, manage, find… so out of 10,000 different data points, what are the five? What are the five that really, really are going to resonate with a buyer in the market, and then leveraging that data in a way to go educate, and then once you educate, you start kind of pulling that string.

Jack Sharry: So really taking storytelling to a persuasive art, using data as the driver.

Sean Denham: Yes, instead of saying white glove, our people, which all may be very, very true, but it’s really hard to differentiate, because everyone’s saying the same thing. People love data, and then making that education off that data.

Jack Sharry: Another thing that I heard on the panel that Paul Klauder, who’s head of the advisor business, was talking about, talked about four items. We’re gonna have Paul on as part of this podcast series. One of things we haven’t talked about which seems right up your alley is the whole idea of tax efficiency. I know that’s one of the pillars, at least, as Paul indicated. Where does that fit into the realm?

Sean Denham: So, it’s another arrow in the quiver. So the market is demanding this, same with alts, so making sure that we are leading edge from a product standpoint. And tax efficiency is just, I mean, you could probably look at your own portfolio. I have my own advisors, and so those advisors are talking about tax efficient. They’re talking about alts in the portfolio, so kind of eating our own dog food, if you will. So six months in the business, I understand it pretty well. I’m not nearly at the depth of Paul Klauder after being here for 35 years. But tax efficiency is something that we are making significant investments in.

Jack Sharry: Cool, cool. So what haven’t I asked you that I should ask you?

Sean Denham: Am I having fun?

Jack Sharry: Yes, are you having fun?

Sean Denham: I’m having a lot of fun.

Jack Sharry: Great. Tell me.

Sean Denham: So working with Ryan and the rest of the executive… Ryan and I sit right next to each other in Oaks, Pennsylvania. We like to have fun. We like to bicker with each other, really challenging each other’s thinking. I think a large part of my job is, not just with Ryan, but the rest of the executive team, and broader than that, the operating committee is challenging thinking. So that outside lens, which Ryan talks about is, again, another thing I take very, very seriously. And I think Michael coming in, which I could not be more pumped about, more excited about, again, that outside in lens, incredibly important.

Jack Sharry: The person that you’re referring to is Michael Lane. Michael joined most recently from BlackRock.

Sean Denham: Yes, yes. Michael joined from BlackRock. So he’s been in his chair for two weeks and a day now. I feel like the veteran now after six months and two weeks, so I got a really large head start on him, but challenging that thinking can be really, really fun. And Ryan and the panel had talked earlier at our advisor conference here the welcoming of that outside in view. So that could be very scary, right, coming as an outsider, especially with a organization where you can’t talk to anyone without them saying, hey, I’ve been here for… 15 years are rookies at SEI. It’s 25 years, 30 years, 35 years. But it’s been really welcoming. It’s been a lot of fun, and really just kind of looking forward to the next, you know, many years here.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. I’ve been a student, as I shared with Ryan, a student of SEI for a long time, decades long. And, in my mind, they were the original disruptor, original ones that caught on to this whole idea of product and tech and ops, and that they should be…

Sean Denham: Put them all together.

Jack Sharry: Put them all together, and then they kind of went dormant, it seemed. As acknowledged by Ryan just a moment ago in the panel, and it’s just in the past couple of years, certainly since he’s ascended, that it seems like there’s new life. And then also new folks, and pretty high level of excitement in terms of where you are and what you’re poised to do.

Sean Denham: There is. So those three pillars is very unique. There’s not a competitor that we really can think of that combines tech, ops, and asset management. So we are uniquely positioned. But the challenge is we need to go tell our story, and the market consumes us in very specific ways, as opposed to across all three pillars, so that’s our fault. And so, you know, moving forward again, using data, using education, deeper branding in the marketplace, getting out there and telling that story, that’s the opportunity.

Jack Sharry: Yes, yes. Well, it sounds to me like they got the right guy. So, not that I’m in a position to welcome you to SEI, but it’s great to hear the story and see what you guys are up to. It’s exciting to watch. It’s very cool.

Sean Denham: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks all for tuning in. SEI is an interesting company, lots of good thinking, some new blood and a real desire to combine technology, operations, and asset management to serve their clients well. I appreciate their inviting me to the conference to learn more about the many great things they have going on and what they intend to do. It was a lot of fun, and I learned a lot. For our audience, thank you for tuning in. If you’ve enjoyed our podcast, please review and subscribe and share what we’re doing here at WealthTech on Deck. We’re available wherever you get your podcasts. You should also check us out at our dedicated website, wealthtechondeck.com. All of our episodes are there, along with articles, perspectives, and curated content from many leaders around the industry. Thanks again, everybody. Really enjoyed it. I look forward to bringing you more perspective and insight on the future of financial advice in a WealthTech on Deck episode coming your way soon. Thanks, all.